Anyone who’s listened to more than a few episodes of Eating the Fantastic already knows — collaboration confuses me. Tell me two writers have managed to work together on the same project without blood on the floor and a lifelong feud and I’m baffled. So when I learned previous guests of the show Brian Keene and Mary SanGiovanni had collaborated on the short story collection Things Left Behind, released last year by Thunderstorm Books, I knew we’d have to chat about it.

We met for breakfast at Martinsburg, West Virginia’s Blue White Grill, which has been serving diner food since the ’50s.

Brian’s published more than 40 novels, including the best-selling The Rising, and he’s the winner of the 2014 World Horror Grand Master Award, while Mary is the author of The Hollower trilogy, the first volume of which was nominated for a Bram Stoker Award. There’s a whole lot more to know about each of them, as you’ll learn if you listen to those two earlier episodes.

We discussed how being intimidated by each other helps their collaborative process, their different tolerances for writing gore (and how that’s changed over time), the romantic reason (up until this episode known to only one of them) their collaborative short story collection came about, which of them once wrote 45,000 words in a day, how they came to agree on a joint dedication, who gives each story its final polish (and who get the final say on sending it to market), how Brian attempted to bleed all over Mary’s upcoming Alien novel, the way they approach their own deaths, their honeymoon book tour hitting every state but Alaska and Hawaii, their upcoming collaborative novel, and much more.

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Did you listen to the 24-hour Scares That Care Telethon, hosted by Brian Keene and his cohorts from The Horror Show with Brian Keene podcast, which ended at noon today after having raised $21,591 for that 501c3 charity devoted to helping those coping with childhood illness, burns and breast cancer? If not, don’t worry. Because though its content was for the most part livestreamed only, never to be seen or heard again, I’ve got some of it for you right here.

Because once again, Eating the Fantastic invaded!

During last year’s telethon, as captured in Episode 34, I brought BBQ and chatted with that best-selling zombie author himself, while this year I picked up takeout from Viet Thai Cafe for dinner with Mary SanGiovanni.

Mary’s the author of The Hollower trilogy, the first volume of which was nominated for the Bram Stoker Award, plus the recent novels Chills and Savage Woods. Her collections include Under Cover of Night, A Darkling Plain, and Night Moves. She’s also the host of the Cosmic Shenanigans podcast.

We discussed H. P. Lovecraft’s racism and sexuality (or lack thereof), how having grown up in New Jersey might have given her the toughness she needed to survive her early short story rejections, why she ended up writing horror instead of science fiction even though her father read her Isaac Asimov and Frank Herbert when she was a kid, which novella she wrote that will never see the light of day, how watching The Exorcist III changed her life, why she’s no longer afraid of vampires, the reason her motto if she founded a religious cult would be “doorways are meant to be opened,” the first writer she met who treated her like an equal, the identity of “the George Carlin of Horror,” and much, much more.

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This completely unpredicted, absolutely unanticipated, and totally unexpected new episode—with horror writers Brian Keene, Lesley Conner, Mary SanGiovanni, Damien Angelica Walters, J.P. Sloan, and Eric Hendrixson—is one I had no idea I was going to record until I was about to record it.

Last week, former guest Brian Keene—who can be heard in Episode 34’s career-spanning conversation—tweeted about an appearance he’d be making at Frederick Community College for a panel discussion on publishing and horror. Since Frederick’s only an hour away, I figured I’d drop by. And at the last minute, as I was about to take off early this past Monday afternoon, I thought—hey, why don’t I record the event?

I wasn’t planning to repurpose it here, but I’d thought Brian would perhaps want to use it for his own podcast, The Horror Show with Brian Keene, the podcast on which I’d appeared back in June 2015 which inspired me to create this podcast. So I grabbed my recording equipment before hopping into my Jeep and heading East.

What happened instead was that after all those horror writers were done entertaining a room filled with creative writing students, and I offered the audio file to Brian, he said—you know what, Scott? Since you did the work of recording the panel, you use it. Which I normally wouldn’t and couldn’t do, because my podcast is, after all, Eating the Fantastic, and not Sitting in the Front Row of a Conference Room Listening to Others Talk About the Fantastic.

But luckily, since the group had planned to grab a bite to eat after their  panel before they hit the road, we did get to chat while breaking bread together. I was able to sit with them at a large round table in the Frederick Community College cafeteria, and as we inhaled salads and stromboli, I pushed them to share some of the brutal truths of horror publishing, the ones they didn’t reveal on the panel for fear of crushing the hopes and dreams of young, innocent, beginning writers. Which I hope you’ll feel is a good enough excuse to justify sharing the panel itself as part of the episode before that meal.

So prepare to join Brian Keene (author of more than 40 novels, and winner of the 2014 World Horror Grand Master Award.), Lesley Conner (managing editor of Apex publications and author of the novel The Weight of Chains), Mary SanGiovanni (author of the The Hollower trilogy, whose most recent novels are Chills and Savage Woods), Damien Angelica Walters (Stoker-nominated writer of the short story collection Sing Me Your Scars and the novel Paper Tigers), J.P. Sloan (author of The Dark Choir urban fantasy series), and Eric Hendrixson (bizarro author of Drunk Driving Champion and Bucket of Face) for an fascinating afternoon as they share what they know about the business of writing and publishing horror.

And what did they discuss in what’s became Episode 53 of Eating the Fantastic?

Lesley Conner explained what most writers don’t realize about first serial rights, and why if you can’t take rejection, you should stop now. Mary SanGiovanni compared your social media presence to singing in your underwear, and revealed the dreadful warning Charles L. Grant shared with her about the writing life. J. P. Sloan recommended the small press, while at the same time recommending you watch out, and also advised to be careful about the illusion of access. Brian Keene passed on the the best writing advice he ever got—from Keith Giffin—and told of the time he was willing to walk away from life-changing money. Damien Angelica Walters shared the ways it never gets easier, and why you need to overcome your fear of saying no. And finally, Eric Hendrixson pointed out why contracts are like a superpower, and sketched the hierarchy of what kind of writing is valuable.

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